Martha Melody Monje
Hello! So I hope you made it through the day and smiled at everyone else, just as you’d promised me earlier. :) I was in deep pensive mood so I thought I’d share with you what I was thinking after hearing the song which you posted above. I want you to know that I am really appreciative of the all the good things that you’ve said to me. It makes me feel loved and secured at the same time. I have never received so much complement from a person in a long time probably because I try blocking these thoughts off in any ways possible. I possess this really strong personality where I had reached a point to shut off myself just so I’d be able to protect my feelings. But with you, suddenly it became so different I felt vulnerable and found myself participating in another engagement again. :)
But looking at this whole “us” thing, I still sense some uncertainties in you. When you gave me the affirmation that you liked me, yes probably you were relieved, but I feel that there are still so much anxieties where I had to ask myself if you really did the right thing? Shouldn’t you just feel and accept the joy? The love? The warmth? The excitement? The pleasure? The satisfaction? The elation? The tenderness? The comfort? Well, I feel guilty that I had become sort of a “distraction” but would it have made any difference if you haven’t told me?
Dick, listen. I honestly care about you and I’d like to give you the assurance that even if I am not physically around, I am with you through good and bad. But if you think that I am causing you so much pain and apprehensions, then I need you to at least be honest with me and tell me exactly what I need to do to alleviate your confusion. Just tell me if you want me to become no longer emotionally available to you. I cannot put your priorities (your career and your future) in jeopardy just because you are feeling extremely confused. It hurts that you always tell me that you’re confused because I feel I am not able to reciprocate your need to be completely happy. Do you need some time to deal with this without me? Do you need me to shut down so you could sort though things? Just tell me and out of friendship, I’ll gladly do it for you. Well of course within myself I know that this process would hurt me, but I just want to be strong enough to survive the discomfort and temporary feelings of emotional pain. Sooner or later, everything will always be back to normal. Please just tell me what to do.
See, this is the itch of not being able to completely release yourself. You have aloooot of doubts. You can’t move forward because you’re afraid of being too involved. All I need is for you to trust me, because I trust you. But thinking about it, you have not even asked me to become exclusive with and for you so I don’t really know where to put myself in this situation haha. It would be too silly and unlikely if I just assume that something is going on between us when you have not given me the affirmation that you wanted to take things to a different level. So because this is case, I would always encourage you to go out and mingle with other people so you can meet someone much better, more ideal than me -- Someone who can be physically and emotionally available for you; someone whom you can share deep conversations with and at the same time joke around with. I’m saying this because I really want you to experience how ecstatic it is to be in love and to be loved back and if I cannot be that person (because of certain issues, as in the age gap, the distance, individual differences and so on), then definitely there is another one waiting for you.
I am attending a company event later so I’m hoping I could talk to you tomorrow? Let me know if it’s possible! If not, then we can talk another time. Please don’t be sad. I hate it when you’re sad and I can’t help but blame myself. Take care, ok? I am hoping we could both organize our thoughts and feelings so that we can be on the same page hereafter. xxx
Friday, September 2, 2011
You know, if there’s one thing I’m certain about is that I have a future ahead of me and that I ‘want’ to be someone, definitely will be. I may not be ‘someone’ that will be known globally but at least in my choice of institute or wherever my loyalty will eventually lie in. I’ve always told my friends this, especially in high school that I’m an opportunist, if there is one I’m going to seize the day and I won’t let anything get in my way, friend or family. I will abandon them if I have to, but I know deep down inside they will haunt me eventually.
-> This is where with you things change; I know that if I make a commitment to form a relationship with you, it’s going to be life long and transparent. However it’s all a blur, everything has to be changed, I need to make arrangements and plan for what is to come and how to ensure we get the most out of what we have, wherever we will be located or what we do. I adapt easily, so I have no problems changing things according to whatever the situation best fits. So when I look at Philippines, I have no bloody clue. But then again even here in NZ, I’m fairly successful with whatever little resources that I have. I take my shit seriously so please bare with me when I have this need for closure and finality.
I have my good days and I have my bad days. On good days I’m an awesome and fun person to be with, I become extremely insightful, I assist people and I generally produce work that is almost perfect. But in order to do this, I need to know what’s coming, or what is going to be in store for me. I cannot stand on the sidelines or on the fence, a decision must be made and I have to be involved. From there, I will push on for that goal unless obstacles arise that will make it impossible. I only give up, if the situation looks really bleak. Note: My definition of bleak greatly differs. I hold onto hope no matter how small or insignificant it may be.
On bad days, I frustrate myself with the smallest of details that don’t even matter at all. I get particular about certain things like, “It’s either this or that”. I become an over perfectionist till the point where I go into a slight stage of insanity. This is where I become insensitive and attack people where it hurts the most. If I’m suppressing this hatred and emotions within, my life becomes a constant battle between killing myself and looking forward. No I will never bring myself to the point of suicide, simply because I’m not stupid. And this is what frustrates me, I want to fucking die sometimes but I never see the need to end my life. Yes extremely dark thoughts don’t try and feel me.
⇒ This is where you make me feel like everyday is a bloody amazing day, with you I have this confidence that no matter what happens I have a pillar to lean on. A pillar that will always be solid and so pure. To me you’re like this carefree soul that wishes nothing but the best for people. In the face of adversities and set backs I know I can count on you to pick me up again without having to feel like all I want is to just bloody die. But by no means do I want you to always constantly make me feel good about myself; I’m not a needy person. In fact I hate people who are overly needy. ( cept you of course, I’ll do anything and everything for you)
I’m a long-range planner, I have my big picture staring at me. However the details, I don’t know.. I work on them when the time comes by. I’m at this point in my life now where I REALISE that happiness is not all about accomplishing goals and getting whatever I want, because let’s face it, things have NEVER gone according to plan for me. So what makes me think that the plan that I have initially made for myself is going to work. [Try and see me through a THINKING perspective, do not try and feel what I’m feeling, you won’t always get it right].
⇒ That being said, with you life is like an adventure, things come one at a time and it’s not helping that I’m fucking frustrated and under immense amount of pressure from school and my NT / ST friends. I need to put myself under this much pressure or my results will be average. So I tend to over think things sometime instead of enjoying the moment with you, I want to. I really really think that I’ll be much more happier and less confused when I’m actually going to be around you and be able to pour this affection that I’ve been holding back for 20 years of my life. Yes the emotions and affections are spilling out, which is why I had to tell you how I felt about you. I would have been a complete mess if I had not, and I didn’t need that especially one week before a major exam. [ which I’m glad to say I did fairly well, thanks to you ]
I don’t know if this is sufficient to explain my reasons for being ‘uncertain’ about us. There’s still a lot that I have to say and I can never fit it in a letter. I could probably write a book about my feelings for you. So it really does not help when you keep telling me to look around for other ENFPs and stuff, I’ve actually realized that im surrounded by a lot of them, and none of them come any close to you which goes to prove it’s definitely more than just a personality attraction. It goes way deeper than that, at least on my side. I appreciate the reality check that you’re trying to show me “there are better ones out there”. But I don’t know if I really want that? I’ve been having this checks constantly shoved down my mind by my friends and myself. For once, I just want to be content, live in the moment and look forward to a possibility of there being an US. In this sense, I want to trust that you trust me. I ‘LOVE’ you. I fucking do, and it scares me. I’ve never felt such an intense bond with anyone and I know that I saved all this for a reason. I haven’t asked you to be exclusive to me simply because I wanted reassurance from you, in fact I was hoping you would ask this question soon. Or else I’d become mad wondering what exactly are we?
As I said, having gone this far. Just the very fact that I’ve got you thinking about a future and I’ve got myself wondering if it’ll actually work goes to show the amount of effort I’m trying to put in just to make something magical happen.. NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE, with love – according to Feeling people, apparently. I actually do not like this mentality but meh… Ha-ha
I could go on actually but I think I should stop now, somethings I would like to discuss with you face to face or something like that.. But yess , I’m going crazy over you. I constantly stare at my phone waiting for a message, I wake up 2 hours extra early just to check if you’ve left a message. I think about us wherever I go, my mind’s always with you. I write poems in my head and make up ‘really cheezy silyl songs about us’ , whenever something significant strikes me, I make it a point to write it down so I can share it with you. I hate telling you this or anyone because I don’t want to come across as ‘needy’ and as overly affectionate or any of that sort. And also because I still wasn’t sure if you really felt the same intense feelings for me as I do for you. Yes trying to be noble and a strong man. ☹ Sometimes I wish I can remove this brave front that I put up for people to see and be vulnerable for once, althought I fucking hate the idea of putting myself up for everyone to criticise, cos they’ll get me wrong anway.
Stupid MBTI bullshit isn’t helping either.. just makes me confused with whether you are sincere about your feelings or it’s just the way that you are programmed, that you have to show feelings because that’s who you are. Soooo.. idk if it’s making sense but ya, fuck! And the drugs, I keep looking at different POV of the different MBTI types and I don’t know if it’s real or if I’m just imagining shit. Life’s a mess, all I want to do is be with you and shut the rest of the world, I want you in my universe. I’ve already made this space for you in my heart, would be a shame if I have to throw it all away just because my brain tells me this is a stupid thing to do.
Theoretically, LOGIC will always over ride FEELINGS.
but who knows? No one actually does.
I haven’t seen the world yet, I’m young but, I want to see it with you.
-> This is where with you things change; I know that if I make a commitment to form a relationship with you, it’s going to be life long and transparent. However it’s all a blur, everything has to be changed, I need to make arrangements and plan for what is to come and how to ensure we get the most out of what we have, wherever we will be located or what we do. I adapt easily, so I have no problems changing things according to whatever the situation best fits. So when I look at Philippines, I have no bloody clue. But then again even here in NZ, I’m fairly successful with whatever little resources that I have. I take my shit seriously so please bare with me when I have this need for closure and finality.
I have my good days and I have my bad days. On good days I’m an awesome and fun person to be with, I become extremely insightful, I assist people and I generally produce work that is almost perfect. But in order to do this, I need to know what’s coming, or what is going to be in store for me. I cannot stand on the sidelines or on the fence, a decision must be made and I have to be involved. From there, I will push on for that goal unless obstacles arise that will make it impossible. I only give up, if the situation looks really bleak. Note: My definition of bleak greatly differs. I hold onto hope no matter how small or insignificant it may be.
On bad days, I frustrate myself with the smallest of details that don’t even matter at all. I get particular about certain things like, “It’s either this or that”. I become an over perfectionist till the point where I go into a slight stage of insanity. This is where I become insensitive and attack people where it hurts the most. If I’m suppressing this hatred and emotions within, my life becomes a constant battle between killing myself and looking forward. No I will never bring myself to the point of suicide, simply because I’m not stupid. And this is what frustrates me, I want to fucking die sometimes but I never see the need to end my life. Yes extremely dark thoughts don’t try and feel me.
⇒ This is where you make me feel like everyday is a bloody amazing day, with you I have this confidence that no matter what happens I have a pillar to lean on. A pillar that will always be solid and so pure. To me you’re like this carefree soul that wishes nothing but the best for people. In the face of adversities and set backs I know I can count on you to pick me up again without having to feel like all I want is to just bloody die. But by no means do I want you to always constantly make me feel good about myself; I’m not a needy person. In fact I hate people who are overly needy. ( cept you of course, I’ll do anything and everything for you)
I’m a long-range planner, I have my big picture staring at me. However the details, I don’t know.. I work on them when the time comes by. I’m at this point in my life now where I REALISE that happiness is not all about accomplishing goals and getting whatever I want, because let’s face it, things have NEVER gone according to plan for me. So what makes me think that the plan that I have initially made for myself is going to work. [Try and see me through a THINKING perspective, do not try and feel what I’m feeling, you won’t always get it right].
⇒ That being said, with you life is like an adventure, things come one at a time and it’s not helping that I’m fucking frustrated and under immense amount of pressure from school and my NT / ST friends. I need to put myself under this much pressure or my results will be average. So I tend to over think things sometime instead of enjoying the moment with you, I want to. I really really think that I’ll be much more happier and less confused when I’m actually going to be around you and be able to pour this affection that I’ve been holding back for 20 years of my life. Yes the emotions and affections are spilling out, which is why I had to tell you how I felt about you. I would have been a complete mess if I had not, and I didn’t need that especially one week before a major exam. [ which I’m glad to say I did fairly well, thanks to you ]
I don’t know if this is sufficient to explain my reasons for being ‘uncertain’ about us. There’s still a lot that I have to say and I can never fit it in a letter. I could probably write a book about my feelings for you. So it really does not help when you keep telling me to look around for other ENFPs and stuff, I’ve actually realized that im surrounded by a lot of them, and none of them come any close to you which goes to prove it’s definitely more than just a personality attraction. It goes way deeper than that, at least on my side. I appreciate the reality check that you’re trying to show me “there are better ones out there”. But I don’t know if I really want that? I’ve been having this checks constantly shoved down my mind by my friends and myself. For once, I just want to be content, live in the moment and look forward to a possibility of there being an US. In this sense, I want to trust that you trust me. I ‘LOVE’ you. I fucking do, and it scares me. I’ve never felt such an intense bond with anyone and I know that I saved all this for a reason. I haven’t asked you to be exclusive to me simply because I wanted reassurance from you, in fact I was hoping you would ask this question soon. Or else I’d become mad wondering what exactly are we?
As I said, having gone this far. Just the very fact that I’ve got you thinking about a future and I’ve got myself wondering if it’ll actually work goes to show the amount of effort I’m trying to put in just to make something magical happen.. NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE, with love – according to Feeling people, apparently. I actually do not like this mentality but meh… Ha-ha
I could go on actually but I think I should stop now, somethings I would like to discuss with you face to face or something like that.. But yess , I’m going crazy over you. I constantly stare at my phone waiting for a message, I wake up 2 hours extra early just to check if you’ve left a message. I think about us wherever I go, my mind’s always with you. I write poems in my head and make up ‘really cheezy silyl songs about us’ , whenever something significant strikes me, I make it a point to write it down so I can share it with you. I hate telling you this or anyone because I don’t want to come across as ‘needy’ and as overly affectionate or any of that sort. And also because I still wasn’t sure if you really felt the same intense feelings for me as I do for you. Yes trying to be noble and a strong man. ☹ Sometimes I wish I can remove this brave front that I put up for people to see and be vulnerable for once, althought I fucking hate the idea of putting myself up for everyone to criticise, cos they’ll get me wrong anway.
Stupid MBTI bullshit isn’t helping either.. just makes me confused with whether you are sincere about your feelings or it’s just the way that you are programmed, that you have to show feelings because that’s who you are. Soooo.. idk if it’s making sense but ya, fuck! And the drugs, I keep looking at different POV of the different MBTI types and I don’t know if it’s real or if I’m just imagining shit. Life’s a mess, all I want to do is be with you and shut the rest of the world, I want you in my universe. I’ve already made this space for you in my heart, would be a shame if I have to throw it all away just because my brain tells me this is a stupid thing to do.
Theoretically, LOGIC will always over ride FEELINGS.
but who knows? No one actually does.
I haven’t seen the world yet, I’m young but, I want to see it with you.
Wednesday, August 31, 2011
The following article by David DeAngelo still represents an old favourite of mine as it uncannily seems to describe INTj males when it comes to their Achilles Heel – initiating romantic relations.
Despite the long-range strategy for how they think a relationship will play out we seem to lack the short-range tactics for actually getting things off-the-ground in the first place. Of course I’m generalising this to all male INTj types.
Some male INTj types that I know, young and old, have proved me completely wrong, especially the ones that got “hooked up” with a partner in either an academic or work environment.
For the rest of us here’s that classic article by D. DeAngelo to indulge in… with my conclusions at the end.
Why Very Intelligent Men Fail with Women
The Ten Reasons Why HIGHLY INTELLIGENT Men Fail With Women… AND WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT…
I’ve been teaching men how to become more successful with women and dating for several years now… and one “problem scenario” just keeps coming up OVER AND OVER… and OVER and OVER and OVER again…
…and it really amazes me.
I’m going to refer to it as “The Genius Failure Paradox”.
“The Genius Failure Paradox” is the tendency for UNUSUALLY intelligent men to have very LOW levels of success with women and dating.
After contemplating this particular paradox, discussing it, and working on it for an awesome amount of time, I’d like to share my thoughts about it with you.
I assume that if you’ve read this far, then you see probably yourself as smarter than the average guy.
You know that you’re a little different than other guys.
You probably realized at a young age that you saw things differently, and thought differently than others in school…
And you’ve probably realized that your smart mind gives you an advantage over others in many areas of life…
Your smart mind gives you a particular type of advantage that can be very, very powerful in life: YOU’RE USUALLY RIGHT.
Smart people get used to being “right”, because they usually ARE right.
And when you’re RIGHT more often than others, you can get ahead in many situations.
But unfortunately, this smart mind of yours can actually be WORSE than USELESS when it comes to a key area of life:
WOMEN AND DATING.
By the way, I did say WORSE than useless.
It can actually be like having a hammer when you need to tighten a bolt. If you use the tool you have for the job, you’ll most likely make the situation WORSE.
Of course, it’s hard for a smart guy to even IMAGINE a situation where his smart mind could HURT his chances for success…
But trust me, this is one of those situations.
So relax, open your smart mind, and let me share with you the ten reasons why smart guys fail with women… and what to do about it.
Reason #1: They’re wrong, but they can’t or won’t see it or admit it.
I mentioned that smart guys are used to being RIGHT in most situations.
And what do most smart guys do when they come across a situation where they’re WRONG?
They find a new situation… one that fits their strength. They know they’ll be right next time, so they just walk away… knowing that it won’t be long before they’re right again.
(OR they let the “problem situation” destroy them… more on that later.)
Well, the BITCH about being wrong when it comes to women and dating is THERE’S NOWHERE TO RUN AND HIDE.
There’s no quick “I’m right” around the next corner to make you feel better.
It only takes “failing” with a few women in a row for a smart guy to see the pattern… and realize that something isn’t working.
Solution? Think harder.
A smart guy just assumes that his logic must be good… so he just keeps thinking harder.
But when no success comes, it really starts to become mentally difficult.
Accepting that you’re wrong is a VERY hard thing for a “smart guy”.
Accepting that you’re not only wrong, but you have NO CLUE WHERE TO EVEN START is even more difficult.
Ultimately, many smart guys come up with the following logical conclusion:
I AM A SMART GUY, THEREFORE IF I CAN’T FIGURE OUT HOW TO BE SUCCESSFUL WITH WOMEN AND DATING, THEN THE PROBLEM MUST NOT BE SOLVABLE OR WORTH SOLVING.
Try that on for a self-defeating idea.
Reason #2: They’re blind and arrogant.
In short, many smart guys refuse to accept that a good, solid, workable answer could come from someone “dumber” than them, so they discount any idea that comes from an “obviously less intelligent person” before trying it.
Let me ask you a question:
If you were going to be walking across Africa on foot, would you rather have your guide be the guy on this planet with the highest I.Q., or a caveman who lived a million years ago that had an I.Q. of about 50… but who grew up being chased by lions and all kinds of animals that wanted to eat him all his life?
It’s an interesting question.
Now, hopefully you’d like to have the guide who isn’t the smartest guy around… but who has escaped from many, many dangerous situations with deadly animals…
But now let me ask you:
If you’d like to learn how to be more successful with women and dating, would you take advice from a guy who isn’t very intelligent, but who knows how to attract women?
There’s something about being smart that makes some guys unwilling to accept input, ideas, or instruction from anyone who isn’t either as smart or smarter
Well, any SMART GUY can see the folly in this particular approach… once it’s examined closely.
If you’ve been making this mistake, then you need to STOP IT. Stop being an arrogant bastard, and open your eyes.
Look around.
Learn from some “dumb” guys… and let them teach you how to get what you REALLY want.
Reason #3: Poor Social Skills.
It BLOWS MY MIND how many smart guys I meet that just don’t GET IT when it comes to basic social skills.
It’s as if they have logically reasoned that social skills are for lower beings who need to play games… and not worth the time it would take to learn them.
In fact, I believe that there are a lot of smart guys running around this planet who don’t even have “social skills” and “be a cool guy that people like” in their “MENTAL MODEL” of what it could possibly take to be successful with women and dating.
Social skills are just that… SKILLS.
They’re not social INFORMATION.
They’re not social THEORIES.
They’re social SKILLS.
And you don’t get them by THINKING about them. You get them by GETTING them.
Excellent social skills are the foundation for good communication with other humans… and if you don’t have good social skills, you dramatically lower your chances for success with women.
Reason #4: They psych themselves out.
Smart guys do something that fascinates the hell out of me…
They come up with all the reasons why everything WON’T WORK when it comes to women and dating.
They actually figure out why what they would like to do will probably fail…
They use their amazing creative imaginations to imagine all kinds of horrible pictures and scenes… and then they use those imaginary outcomes to create negative emotions… which ultimately stop them from having success with women and dating.
THEY DON’T EVEN TRY.
Now, if you’ve thought something through and come up with a good reason why it would fail, it makes sense to not do it, right?
I mean, why would you want to do things that are going to fail?
It’s sound logic, but HORRIBLE thinking when it comes to the REAL WORLD… and success with women.
Because smart guys don’t UNDERSTAND women, and they don’t UNDERSTAND what it takes to be successful with women, they are working with bad figures. They’re wrong before they even start figuring!
Using your mind to come up with all the reasons why things won’t work in this area of your life leads to ULTIMATE FAILURE.
You must learn to overcome this habit if you have it.
Reason #5: They seek only “informational solutions.”
What does a smart guy do when he runs into a problem… or he needs to figure something out?
He looks for INFORMATION to help him solve the problem.
MORE INFORMATION is always the answer.
Information is the friend of a smart guy.
Got a strange virus on your computer? Just hop on the internet and search for how to eliminate it.
Don’t know how to change the alternator on your car? No prob. Just buy the manual and turn to page 147.
Don’t know the definition of a word? Open up your dictionary.
MORE INFORMATION solves the problem.
So what do smart guys do when it comes to overcoming a problem with women?
They want MORE INFORMATION.
They think the answer lies in learning just ONE MORE TECHNIQUE… or one more magic concept.
Well what if there were a situation in life where the “get more information” strategy actually made things WORSE?
How would you even know that it was making things worse?
Now, I don’t want to suggest that learning more about how to be successful with women is a bad thing. It’s not.
But if you have a problem that is EMOTIONAL or PHYSICAL in nature, then reading five million theories on it probably isn’t going to help you very much.
You need to get out in the real world and try some stuff!
You need to look at the REAL problem… the ROOT of the problem.
When it comes to women and dating, there’s a very good chance that you have MORE than enough “information”.
Smart guys often use “more information” to distract them from TAKING ACTION.
I’ve heard this referred to as “Creative Avoidance”.
Nod silently if you’ve ever figured out a creative way to avoid facing something in your life.
Good, thank you.
Reason #6: They focus on logic instead of emotion.
NEWS JUST IN: Women don’t feel ATTRACTION for men who make them THINK.
Women feel ATTRACTION for men who make them FEEL.
So what do most smart guys do when they first meet a woman?
EXACTLY!
They get into a LOGICAL CONVERSATION.
I’m shaking my head right now…
Smart men try to engage women in LOGICAL conversations and interactions because that’s where THEY feel comfortable… not knowing that they’re SHOOTING THEMSELVES IN THE FOOT by doing it!
Get this: A monkey sitting at a typewriter will type the collected works of Shakespeare before you will make a woman feel ATTRACTION for you by engaging her in logical conversation.
When you start a logical conversation with a woman you’ve just met, you are basically taking out a NEON SIGN that says “I don’t get it when it comes to women” and putting it on your head.
Typical “logical” conversations include talking about work, family, school, and jobs… discussing politics, religion, weather… and anything that has to do with math, science, or INTELLIGENCE.
On the other hand, if you start talking to a woman and you say “OK, so tell me something… Why is it that all women say that they want sweet, nice guys… but they all date sexy, selfish bad boys?” (and then make fun of any answer she gives) you’re having an EMOTIONAL conversation.
If you don’t know what I’m talking about, keep reading. You need more help than I thought.
Reason #7: They’re not used to the challenge of the moment.
Smart people usually have time to THINK about things.
If you’re taking a test, you can sit there and work out the answers.
If you have a math problem, you can work on it until you’ve figured it out.
If you’re trying to fix something, you can keep working on it until it’s fixed.
Smart guys are used to being able to take at least a LITTLE bit of time to prepare and show off their “good sides” in most situations.
Not so with women…
If you don’t know what to do at every step along the way, you’ll be shut down very quickly.
Women have an AMAZING “He doesn’t get it” radar system.
Women have all kinds of subtle and ingenious tests that they throw at men to separate the “get its” from the “don’t get its”.
And if you don’t get it, then you’re going to fail one of these tests VERY quickly.
But the worst part is that you won’t ever KNOW that you were being tested… OR that you failed.
Smart guys aren’t used to dealing with complex EMOTIONAL and COMMUNICATION challenges in the moment… and especially the “women and dating” kind.
One of they keys to becoming more successful with women and dating is learning to handle all of the tests that women throw at you effortlessly.
But before you can learn how to deal with the tests, you must first learn how to communicate on an emotional level, how to demonstrate that you have fundamental social skills, and how to keep your cool in the moment.
Reason #8: They think that doing “nice” things is the “smart way.”
OK, let me ask you a trick question:
If I told you that you were going to have a date with the supermodel of your choice, which of the following would you choose as a “smart” way of preparing:
1) Find out what her favorite type of flowers are, and show up with a dozen of them so she would be “wowed”.
2) Learn about her favorite travel destination so you could discuss it with her.
3) Find out what her favorite type of food is so you could take her to dinner… and she could see that you cared enough to choose something that she enjoyed.
OK, time’s up. Which did you choose?
Now, I already mentioned that this was a TRICK question.
The answer is NONE OF THE ABOVE.
But WHY?
These three options all seemed logical, right?
I mean, why WOULDN’T you want to show up with her favorite flowers?
Why WOULDN’T you want to talk about her favorite places to travel?
Why WOULDN’T you want to take her to eat her favorite foods so she enjoyed herself?
Go with me here…
Smart guys think that they’re being CLEVER when they do things like buying a woman her favorite flowers… and bringing them to the FIRST DATE.
Right?
In their minds, they’re thinking “I’m going to be the guy who is thinking ahead… and I’m going to show up with the flowers that I KNOW she loves… and she’s going to see them and like me more because of it”.
Makes sense… good math, right?
Well the one teensy-weensy mistake that these “smart” guys make is not realizing that it doesn’t actually take a smart person to think like this!
In fact, ANY jackass can figure out how to kiss a woman’s ass.
And guess what?
WOMEN KNOW THIS!
And guess what else?
EVERY WUSSBAG DOES THIS STUFF.
An intelligent guy, in his proud arrogance, will think he’s being such the charmer by using this “thoughtful” approach…
…and the woman he is chasing will interpret it as just another Wussy who’s trying to MANIPULATE her.
Ouch. Another blow to intelligence.
Reason #9: Always needing to be the expert.
Have you ever met a smart guy who always needed to be “right”?
Have you ever met someone who would actually argue with you about something they knew nothing about… and make a fool of themselves because they just couldn’t shut their “smart mouths”?
Over the last few years helping guys improve their success with women, I see this one pattern over and over again…
Smart guys don’t like to be “beginners” at ANYTHING.
They don’t like the idea of screwing up… especially if others are watching.
They want to maintain this “smart guy” image of themselves… so they try to always be “The Expert” at whatever they do.
Instead of saying “Hey, you know what? I’m a beginner at this… how do I do it? What should I do first? What next?”… and instead of being totally OK with screwing up, making mistakes, and making a fool of themselves in front of others in order to LEARN…
…they won’t risk embarrassment, failure, or others thinking that they’re beginners… so they wind up ultimately FAILING.
MORE NEWS JUST IN: It’s OK to be a beginner.
Reason #10: They can’t deal with fear and other emotions.
A smart guy’s STRENGTH is his MIND.
His WEAKNESS is often his EMOTIONS.
Smart guys are often IMMOBILIZED by FEAR.
Totally stopped.
FROZEN.
And since many smart guys aren’t comfortable dealing with things they’re not good at, they just repress or RUN away from fear.
Many men would rather DIE in lonely isolation than admit that they don’t know how to deal with their emotions… or, GOD FORBID, ask for help!
Hey, I went for YEARS like this.
I know what it’s like.
But the reality is that any guy can learn to handle and even MASTER his emotions (even fear)… if he just takes the time and effort to learn HOW to do it.
If this is you, then do yourself a big favor… take the time. Take the effort.
Don’t worry about what anyone else thinks of you… it doesn’t matter.
What matters is you doing the things that YOU need to do FOR YOU.
…I think the reason why I’m so fascinated with “The Genius Failure Paradox” is because I have had to struggle with all of these issues for a lot of years of my life.
Now, I’m not saying that I’m the smartest guy on the planet…
But I don’t think mamma raised no fool.
And it always bothered the hell out of me that even though I was so good at figuring things out, I couldn’t figure WOMEN out.
Something tells me that you know what I’m talking about.
Well, after beating my head against the wall for a few years… trying all kinds of crazy “logical” stuff… I finally got the “bright” idea to start studying guys who were “naturally” good with women.
Of course, I found out that you could be both NOT SMART, and VERY SUCCESSFUL WITH WOMEN at the same time.
I also learned that you can be SMART and VERY SUCCESSFUL WITH WOMEN too.
By carefully studying what the “naturals” did with women… and learning how they “thought” about the topic, I began to realize that success with women wasn’t entirely LOGICAL.
Much of what I learned was very tough for me to accept… because my logical brain just didn’t want to buy into it.
One thing I saw was guys pushing women away from them… and having the women then chase them in response.
Made no sense at all.
I saw guys tease beautiful women and make jokes about them to their faces… and then watched those women become “little girls” in response… unable to maintain their composure, and therefore unable to maintain their manipulative power…
It took me quite a long time, but I continued to learn, test, and refine what I was learning until I personally figured out how to approach women in any situation… get any woman’s number I wanted anytime I wanted… date any type of woman I wanted…
…and most importantly, GET RID of that “empty” feeling that I carried around my whole life because I didn’t know how to attract women.
And once I got this area of my own life together, I decided to help other guys get this area of THEIR lives together.
Despite the long-range strategy for how they think a relationship will play out we seem to lack the short-range tactics for actually getting things off-the-ground in the first place. Of course I’m generalising this to all male INTj types.
Some male INTj types that I know, young and old, have proved me completely wrong, especially the ones that got “hooked up” with a partner in either an academic or work environment.
For the rest of us here’s that classic article by D. DeAngelo to indulge in… with my conclusions at the end.
Why Very Intelligent Men Fail with Women
The Ten Reasons Why HIGHLY INTELLIGENT Men Fail With Women… AND WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT…
I’ve been teaching men how to become more successful with women and dating for several years now… and one “problem scenario” just keeps coming up OVER AND OVER… and OVER and OVER and OVER again…
…and it really amazes me.
I’m going to refer to it as “The Genius Failure Paradox”.
“The Genius Failure Paradox” is the tendency for UNUSUALLY intelligent men to have very LOW levels of success with women and dating.
After contemplating this particular paradox, discussing it, and working on it for an awesome amount of time, I’d like to share my thoughts about it with you.
I assume that if you’ve read this far, then you see probably yourself as smarter than the average guy.
You know that you’re a little different than other guys.
You probably realized at a young age that you saw things differently, and thought differently than others in school…
And you’ve probably realized that your smart mind gives you an advantage over others in many areas of life…
Your smart mind gives you a particular type of advantage that can be very, very powerful in life: YOU’RE USUALLY RIGHT.
Smart people get used to being “right”, because they usually ARE right.
And when you’re RIGHT more often than others, you can get ahead in many situations.
But unfortunately, this smart mind of yours can actually be WORSE than USELESS when it comes to a key area of life:
WOMEN AND DATING.
By the way, I did say WORSE than useless.
It can actually be like having a hammer when you need to tighten a bolt. If you use the tool you have for the job, you’ll most likely make the situation WORSE.
Of course, it’s hard for a smart guy to even IMAGINE a situation where his smart mind could HURT his chances for success…
But trust me, this is one of those situations.
So relax, open your smart mind, and let me share with you the ten reasons why smart guys fail with women… and what to do about it.
Reason #1: They’re wrong, but they can’t or won’t see it or admit it.
I mentioned that smart guys are used to being RIGHT in most situations.
And what do most smart guys do when they come across a situation where they’re WRONG?
They find a new situation… one that fits their strength. They know they’ll be right next time, so they just walk away… knowing that it won’t be long before they’re right again.
(OR they let the “problem situation” destroy them… more on that later.)
Well, the BITCH about being wrong when it comes to women and dating is THERE’S NOWHERE TO RUN AND HIDE.
There’s no quick “I’m right” around the next corner to make you feel better.
It only takes “failing” with a few women in a row for a smart guy to see the pattern… and realize that something isn’t working.
Solution? Think harder.
A smart guy just assumes that his logic must be good… so he just keeps thinking harder.
But when no success comes, it really starts to become mentally difficult.
Accepting that you’re wrong is a VERY hard thing for a “smart guy”.
Accepting that you’re not only wrong, but you have NO CLUE WHERE TO EVEN START is even more difficult.
Ultimately, many smart guys come up with the following logical conclusion:
I AM A SMART GUY, THEREFORE IF I CAN’T FIGURE OUT HOW TO BE SUCCESSFUL WITH WOMEN AND DATING, THEN THE PROBLEM MUST NOT BE SOLVABLE OR WORTH SOLVING.
Try that on for a self-defeating idea.
Reason #2: They’re blind and arrogant.
In short, many smart guys refuse to accept that a good, solid, workable answer could come from someone “dumber” than them, so they discount any idea that comes from an “obviously less intelligent person” before trying it.
Let me ask you a question:
If you were going to be walking across Africa on foot, would you rather have your guide be the guy on this planet with the highest I.Q., or a caveman who lived a million years ago that had an I.Q. of about 50… but who grew up being chased by lions and all kinds of animals that wanted to eat him all his life?
It’s an interesting question.
Now, hopefully you’d like to have the guide who isn’t the smartest guy around… but who has escaped from many, many dangerous situations with deadly animals…
But now let me ask you:
If you’d like to learn how to be more successful with women and dating, would you take advice from a guy who isn’t very intelligent, but who knows how to attract women?
There’s something about being smart that makes some guys unwilling to accept input, ideas, or instruction from anyone who isn’t either as smart or smarter
Well, any SMART GUY can see the folly in this particular approach… once it’s examined closely.
If you’ve been making this mistake, then you need to STOP IT. Stop being an arrogant bastard, and open your eyes.
Look around.
Learn from some “dumb” guys… and let them teach you how to get what you REALLY want.
Reason #3: Poor Social Skills.
It BLOWS MY MIND how many smart guys I meet that just don’t GET IT when it comes to basic social skills.
It’s as if they have logically reasoned that social skills are for lower beings who need to play games… and not worth the time it would take to learn them.
In fact, I believe that there are a lot of smart guys running around this planet who don’t even have “social skills” and “be a cool guy that people like” in their “MENTAL MODEL” of what it could possibly take to be successful with women and dating.
Social skills are just that… SKILLS.
They’re not social INFORMATION.
They’re not social THEORIES.
They’re social SKILLS.
And you don’t get them by THINKING about them. You get them by GETTING them.
Excellent social skills are the foundation for good communication with other humans… and if you don’t have good social skills, you dramatically lower your chances for success with women.
Reason #4: They psych themselves out.
Smart guys do something that fascinates the hell out of me…
They come up with all the reasons why everything WON’T WORK when it comes to women and dating.
They actually figure out why what they would like to do will probably fail…
They use their amazing creative imaginations to imagine all kinds of horrible pictures and scenes… and then they use those imaginary outcomes to create negative emotions… which ultimately stop them from having success with women and dating.
THEY DON’T EVEN TRY.
Now, if you’ve thought something through and come up with a good reason why it would fail, it makes sense to not do it, right?
I mean, why would you want to do things that are going to fail?
It’s sound logic, but HORRIBLE thinking when it comes to the REAL WORLD… and success with women.
Because smart guys don’t UNDERSTAND women, and they don’t UNDERSTAND what it takes to be successful with women, they are working with bad figures. They’re wrong before they even start figuring!
Using your mind to come up with all the reasons why things won’t work in this area of your life leads to ULTIMATE FAILURE.
You must learn to overcome this habit if you have it.
Reason #5: They seek only “informational solutions.”
What does a smart guy do when he runs into a problem… or he needs to figure something out?
He looks for INFORMATION to help him solve the problem.
MORE INFORMATION is always the answer.
Information is the friend of a smart guy.
Got a strange virus on your computer? Just hop on the internet and search for how to eliminate it.
Don’t know how to change the alternator on your car? No prob. Just buy the manual and turn to page 147.
Don’t know the definition of a word? Open up your dictionary.
MORE INFORMATION solves the problem.
So what do smart guys do when it comes to overcoming a problem with women?
They want MORE INFORMATION.
They think the answer lies in learning just ONE MORE TECHNIQUE… or one more magic concept.
Well what if there were a situation in life where the “get more information” strategy actually made things WORSE?
How would you even know that it was making things worse?
Now, I don’t want to suggest that learning more about how to be successful with women is a bad thing. It’s not.
But if you have a problem that is EMOTIONAL or PHYSICAL in nature, then reading five million theories on it probably isn’t going to help you very much.
You need to get out in the real world and try some stuff!
You need to look at the REAL problem… the ROOT of the problem.
When it comes to women and dating, there’s a very good chance that you have MORE than enough “information”.
Smart guys often use “more information” to distract them from TAKING ACTION.
I’ve heard this referred to as “Creative Avoidance”.
Nod silently if you’ve ever figured out a creative way to avoid facing something in your life.
Good, thank you.
Reason #6: They focus on logic instead of emotion.
NEWS JUST IN: Women don’t feel ATTRACTION for men who make them THINK.
Women feel ATTRACTION for men who make them FEEL.
So what do most smart guys do when they first meet a woman?
EXACTLY!
They get into a LOGICAL CONVERSATION.
I’m shaking my head right now…
Smart men try to engage women in LOGICAL conversations and interactions because that’s where THEY feel comfortable… not knowing that they’re SHOOTING THEMSELVES IN THE FOOT by doing it!
Get this: A monkey sitting at a typewriter will type the collected works of Shakespeare before you will make a woman feel ATTRACTION for you by engaging her in logical conversation.
When you start a logical conversation with a woman you’ve just met, you are basically taking out a NEON SIGN that says “I don’t get it when it comes to women” and putting it on your head.
Typical “logical” conversations include talking about work, family, school, and jobs… discussing politics, religion, weather… and anything that has to do with math, science, or INTELLIGENCE.
On the other hand, if you start talking to a woman and you say “OK, so tell me something… Why is it that all women say that they want sweet, nice guys… but they all date sexy, selfish bad boys?” (and then make fun of any answer she gives) you’re having an EMOTIONAL conversation.
If you don’t know what I’m talking about, keep reading. You need more help than I thought.
Reason #7: They’re not used to the challenge of the moment.
Smart people usually have time to THINK about things.
If you’re taking a test, you can sit there and work out the answers.
If you have a math problem, you can work on it until you’ve figured it out.
If you’re trying to fix something, you can keep working on it until it’s fixed.
Smart guys are used to being able to take at least a LITTLE bit of time to prepare and show off their “good sides” in most situations.
Not so with women…
If you don’t know what to do at every step along the way, you’ll be shut down very quickly.
Women have an AMAZING “He doesn’t get it” radar system.
Women have all kinds of subtle and ingenious tests that they throw at men to separate the “get its” from the “don’t get its”.
And if you don’t get it, then you’re going to fail one of these tests VERY quickly.
But the worst part is that you won’t ever KNOW that you were being tested… OR that you failed.
Smart guys aren’t used to dealing with complex EMOTIONAL and COMMUNICATION challenges in the moment… and especially the “women and dating” kind.
One of they keys to becoming more successful with women and dating is learning to handle all of the tests that women throw at you effortlessly.
But before you can learn how to deal with the tests, you must first learn how to communicate on an emotional level, how to demonstrate that you have fundamental social skills, and how to keep your cool in the moment.
Reason #8: They think that doing “nice” things is the “smart way.”
OK, let me ask you a trick question:
If I told you that you were going to have a date with the supermodel of your choice, which of the following would you choose as a “smart” way of preparing:
1) Find out what her favorite type of flowers are, and show up with a dozen of them so she would be “wowed”.
2) Learn about her favorite travel destination so you could discuss it with her.
3) Find out what her favorite type of food is so you could take her to dinner… and she could see that you cared enough to choose something that she enjoyed.
OK, time’s up. Which did you choose?
Now, I already mentioned that this was a TRICK question.
The answer is NONE OF THE ABOVE.
But WHY?
These three options all seemed logical, right?
I mean, why WOULDN’T you want to show up with her favorite flowers?
Why WOULDN’T you want to talk about her favorite places to travel?
Why WOULDN’T you want to take her to eat her favorite foods so she enjoyed herself?
Go with me here…
Smart guys think that they’re being CLEVER when they do things like buying a woman her favorite flowers… and bringing them to the FIRST DATE.
Right?
In their minds, they’re thinking “I’m going to be the guy who is thinking ahead… and I’m going to show up with the flowers that I KNOW she loves… and she’s going to see them and like me more because of it”.
Makes sense… good math, right?
Well the one teensy-weensy mistake that these “smart” guys make is not realizing that it doesn’t actually take a smart person to think like this!
In fact, ANY jackass can figure out how to kiss a woman’s ass.
And guess what?
WOMEN KNOW THIS!
And guess what else?
EVERY WUSSBAG DOES THIS STUFF.
An intelligent guy, in his proud arrogance, will think he’s being such the charmer by using this “thoughtful” approach…
…and the woman he is chasing will interpret it as just another Wussy who’s trying to MANIPULATE her.
Ouch. Another blow to intelligence.
Reason #9: Always needing to be the expert.
Have you ever met a smart guy who always needed to be “right”?
Have you ever met someone who would actually argue with you about something they knew nothing about… and make a fool of themselves because they just couldn’t shut their “smart mouths”?
Over the last few years helping guys improve their success with women, I see this one pattern over and over again…
Smart guys don’t like to be “beginners” at ANYTHING.
They don’t like the idea of screwing up… especially if others are watching.
They want to maintain this “smart guy” image of themselves… so they try to always be “The Expert” at whatever they do.
Instead of saying “Hey, you know what? I’m a beginner at this… how do I do it? What should I do first? What next?”… and instead of being totally OK with screwing up, making mistakes, and making a fool of themselves in front of others in order to LEARN…
…they won’t risk embarrassment, failure, or others thinking that they’re beginners… so they wind up ultimately FAILING.
MORE NEWS JUST IN: It’s OK to be a beginner.
Reason #10: They can’t deal with fear and other emotions.
A smart guy’s STRENGTH is his MIND.
His WEAKNESS is often his EMOTIONS.
Smart guys are often IMMOBILIZED by FEAR.
Totally stopped.
FROZEN.
And since many smart guys aren’t comfortable dealing with things they’re not good at, they just repress or RUN away from fear.
Many men would rather DIE in lonely isolation than admit that they don’t know how to deal with their emotions… or, GOD FORBID, ask for help!
Hey, I went for YEARS like this.
I know what it’s like.
But the reality is that any guy can learn to handle and even MASTER his emotions (even fear)… if he just takes the time and effort to learn HOW to do it.
If this is you, then do yourself a big favor… take the time. Take the effort.
Don’t worry about what anyone else thinks of you… it doesn’t matter.
What matters is you doing the things that YOU need to do FOR YOU.
…I think the reason why I’m so fascinated with “The Genius Failure Paradox” is because I have had to struggle with all of these issues for a lot of years of my life.
Now, I’m not saying that I’m the smartest guy on the planet…
But I don’t think mamma raised no fool.
And it always bothered the hell out of me that even though I was so good at figuring things out, I couldn’t figure WOMEN out.
Something tells me that you know what I’m talking about.
Well, after beating my head against the wall for a few years… trying all kinds of crazy “logical” stuff… I finally got the “bright” idea to start studying guys who were “naturally” good with women.
Of course, I found out that you could be both NOT SMART, and VERY SUCCESSFUL WITH WOMEN at the same time.
I also learned that you can be SMART and VERY SUCCESSFUL WITH WOMEN too.
By carefully studying what the “naturals” did with women… and learning how they “thought” about the topic, I began to realize that success with women wasn’t entirely LOGICAL.
Much of what I learned was very tough for me to accept… because my logical brain just didn’t want to buy into it.
One thing I saw was guys pushing women away from them… and having the women then chase them in response.
Made no sense at all.
I saw guys tease beautiful women and make jokes about them to their faces… and then watched those women become “little girls” in response… unable to maintain their composure, and therefore unable to maintain their manipulative power…
It took me quite a long time, but I continued to learn, test, and refine what I was learning until I personally figured out how to approach women in any situation… get any woman’s number I wanted anytime I wanted… date any type of woman I wanted…
…and most importantly, GET RID of that “empty” feeling that I carried around my whole life because I didn’t know how to attract women.
And once I got this area of my own life together, I decided to help other guys get this area of THEIR lives together.
Monday, August 29, 2011
In many cases an INTJ knows much better how another person is feeling but already at a very young age they learned to keep their mouth shut because when it comes to feelings, hardly anybody agrees. (which may result in doubt in some and ignorance in others.)
From an INTJ point of view, the way people deal with their feelings is the most irrational thing in the world. One day a certain something happens and you react in a happy way. The INTJ recognizes that and tries to replicate it to make you happy again. But for some strange reason, the next time you get upset. If you are that unpredictable a lot, INTJ's back off.
From an INTJ point of view, the way people deal with their feelings is the most irrational thing in the world. One day a certain something happens and you react in a happy way. The INTJ recognizes that and tries to replicate it to make you happy again. But for some strange reason, the next time you get upset. If you are that unpredictable a lot, INTJ's back off.
just-smith:
lookoutsideyourself:
ideasandopinions:
convertedinvader:
ideasandopinions:
convertedinvader:
ideasandopinions:
I’d just like to tell all the anti-feminist Tum/b/lr bros something: when you assume all feminists are misandric (or that the entire philosophy is misandric), you’re committing a generalization fallacy. It is not right to base your opinion of a community of billions on a community completely resigned to Tumblr. Yes, there are misandric feminists, just as there are Windows-apologetic linuxfags.
Feminism is about achieving equality between the sexes, by bringing down Patriarchy and uplifting Humanism.
I’m not assuming that all feminists are misandric. Hell, I KNOW not all are. However, a movement as a whole is defined by the sum of those involved, therefore, since so many feminists are misandric (and apparently tolerated by the reasonable minority), the movement as a whole can be considered misandric.
Right there again you are committing a generalization fallacy. How many is ‘so many’ in a movement that includes billions of men and women from countless cultures and perspectives? It’s not justifiable to determine the quality of a movement from its own praxis and implementation. You must go to the root — to theory. If you’re keen on proving the misandric nature of Feminism, look up some essential feminist readings and find it there.
I respectfully disagree. There is no point in judging feminist theory when the movement itself fails to stay true to said theory, using it as a shield against rightful criticism instead.
And how many is “so many”? Enough to infuse most “feminist” articles with misandry. When the vast majority of what’s said under the aegis of feminism is misandric, how can you expect anyone not to consider feminism as a whole misandric?
I too respectfully disagree. Members of a movement that do not comply with the theory can be said to be members in-name-only. Just as something within science that is found wrong is no longer science, ‘feminists’ expressing non-feminist sentiment (misandry here) are not feminist. A particle that does not fit the qualities of being an electron is not an electron. You must know the theory to criticize the movement. It’s only sensible.
“Enough to infuse most ‘feminist’ articles with misandry.” Now, see here, you’re jumping the gun. What feminist literature have you read that is misandric? Quote lines for me. You say ‘vast majority’, but what do you mean by that? I really hate to pick apart your word-choice, but it is important to use the right words at the right time to adequately express an idea.
Interesting discussion, though I mostly agree with ideasandopinions. I criticize feminists and feminism pretty frequently, but even I concede that misandry is not nearly as common within feminism as some seem to believe.
I think that discussions like this confuse the meanings of the term ‘misandry’.
Feminists should know better. ‘Misogyny’, though literally translated to the hatred of women, is not simply men going ‘I hate women’. Otherwise examples of misogyny would be much rarer. Instead, misogyny can be a stereotype, a double standard, or an action/policy which leaves women worse off, intentions regardless. Feminists attempt to recognise and fight misogyny in all of its forms, including those which may be less obvious.
Likewise, ‘misandry’ is not just women going ‘I hate men’. Misandry, like misogyny, can be everywhere and anywhere. Somebody expecting chivalry might not knowingly hate men or women, but they are being misandric and misogynistic. Somebody enforcing patriarchal norms may not realise that what they are doing in misandry and misogyny, but it is. You see?
So, ‘misandry in feminism’ can mean a lot more than the minority of feminists who literally do hate men, and are proud of it. This minority are a problem of their own - they are vocal, face little opposition from within the movement, and are therefore known as influential ‘feminists’. This is obviously offensive to men, and hypocritical coming from supposed egalitarians, but if nothing else these extremists are bad because they give a bad name to real feminism, which suffers as a result. Fight them at every turn.
Although man-hating radicals are bad enough, the problem of feminist misandry is a much deeper one. It concerns the vast majority of feminists, the moderates, the ones who would never describe themselves as a ‘man-hater’, and who will claim to fight sexism in all of its forms.
But it’s misandry when they exclude men from discussions on gender equality, as if ‘women’s issues’ with men weren’t ‘men’s issues’ as well.
It’s misandry when they use ‘male privilege’ as a way to silence male viewpoints as invalid, without actually acknowledging the logical value of any arguments made.
It’s misandry when they use ‘male privilege’ to speak over male suffering as unimportant, as if the world is a ‘safe space’ for men, and thus unintentionally suppress the voices of male victims.
It’s misandry when they use ‘male privilege’ without accepting that they have an equal and opposite ‘female privilege’.
It’s misandry when they accuse a man of ‘mansplaining’, invalidating his point simply because they don’t want to be corrected, as if men can hypocritically never be right where equality is concerned.
It’s misandry when they blame men for misogyny, as if sexist men consciously created the natural patriarchy and its gender roles which hurt men just as much.
It’s misandry when they say misandry doesn’t exist, or laugh about it in a victim’s face.
It’s misandry when they say misandry is just a side effect of misogyny, and that male sufferers are ‘confused’, and the real oppressors.
It’s misandry when they assume that women can never be sexist, whereas all men are sexist whether they know it or not.
It’s misandry when they talk about ‘Nice Guys (tm)’ and other negative male behaviours, without realising that these behaviours are equally as evident in women.
It’s misandry when they talk about issues that negatively affect women without considering how they negatively affect men, and therefore treat them as ‘women’s issues’.
It’s misandry when they talk about issues which negatively affect men, and either reframe them as only affecting women or act as if they are some ‘privilege’ that men should be thankful for.
It’s misandry when they say that only misogyny can be sexism, or relegate misandry to ‘benevolent sexism’, as if it’s only bad when it affects women.
It’s misandry when they perpetuate the sexist stereotype that women are always victims, and men are always the oppressor.
It’s misandry when they blame sexist men for any and all discomforts they face in their life, many of which are not sexist at all, or are discomforts which men face too.
It’s misandry when they ignore men to such an extent that they stop being pro-equality, and begin just being pro-women.
It’s misandry when they are part of a ‘women’s movement’, exclude male ‘allies’ from having power in that movement, and then act as if it is the only movement we need for equality.
It’s misandry when they suppress the masculist movement as unnecessary, necessarily sexist, or a joke, and derail all discussions on men’s rights.
It’s misandry when they use false statistics and facts, for example on domestic violence, to create a negative depiction of men, whilst discouraging male survivors from speaking up.
It’s misandry when they suggest that all men are potential rapists, or that only men should be taught not to rape, or that only men rape.
It’s misandry when they suggest that only women can be rape victims, and that only women should be protected from rape, and only support women speaking up against it.
It’s misandry when they play the sex card on issues where it isn’t needed, as if men can never make the better argument, and must always have an ulterior motive or be blinded by privilege, whereas women aren’t.
It’s misandry when they suggest that women and feminists are immune to criticism, and automatically name-call anybody who disagrees with them, or treat all anti-feminists or masculists as misogynists and rape-apologists simply out of bigotry.
It’s misandry when they think that ‘misogynist’ and ‘rape apologist’ are the same thing, or that certain positions on abortion or promiscuity are necessarily misogynistic, when they may be benign, whilst ignoring all positions which disadvantage men.
It’s misandry so often that I encounter it every day as a male feminist, and struggle to find feminists who don’t do most of the above. There’s your ‘vast majority’.
As for judging the movement on the behaviour of those invoking its name, you have a point; but when such a bulk of members behave in such ways, it’s hard not to take that as a reflection on the label itself. Feminism would be nothing without feminists, and it evolves with them. They are, after all, its voice.
It is easy to simply say ‘well they weren’t a real feminist’ when somebody slips up, but that is far from satisfactory. Nobody is perfect, and so under this method nobody is a feminist. I can’t criticise what Christianity has done in the past, because if they did wrong then they ‘weren’t real Christians’. Nobody is. I can’t complain about oppressive Communist regimes, because they probably ‘weren’t real Communists’. It’s a tempting cop-out, but it doesn’t hold up when applied thoroughly.
As for looking at the fundamentals of the movement, nothing could be more fundamental than the name itself. Feminism. A woman’s movement. Feminism is based on the assumption that women are oppressed and men aren’t, an assumption which has proved very harmful to men, and continues to make a great deal of difficulty for men’s rights movements. There is a way around this, in calling yourself both a feminist and a masculist, but the majority of feminists don’t do that. The majority of feminists, and the sole beacon of feminism that they cling to, are therefore subtly misandric. Until they embrace masculism - or ditch both for the simpler label of ‘egalitarian’ - that is.
lookoutsideyourself:
ideasandopinions:
convertedinvader:
ideasandopinions:
convertedinvader:
ideasandopinions:
I’d just like to tell all the anti-feminist Tum/b/lr bros something: when you assume all feminists are misandric (or that the entire philosophy is misandric), you’re committing a generalization fallacy. It is not right to base your opinion of a community of billions on a community completely resigned to Tumblr. Yes, there are misandric feminists, just as there are Windows-apologetic linuxfags.
Feminism is about achieving equality between the sexes, by bringing down Patriarchy and uplifting Humanism.
I’m not assuming that all feminists are misandric. Hell, I KNOW not all are. However, a movement as a whole is defined by the sum of those involved, therefore, since so many feminists are misandric (and apparently tolerated by the reasonable minority), the movement as a whole can be considered misandric.
Right there again you are committing a generalization fallacy. How many is ‘so many’ in a movement that includes billions of men and women from countless cultures and perspectives? It’s not justifiable to determine the quality of a movement from its own praxis and implementation. You must go to the root — to theory. If you’re keen on proving the misandric nature of Feminism, look up some essential feminist readings and find it there.
I respectfully disagree. There is no point in judging feminist theory when the movement itself fails to stay true to said theory, using it as a shield against rightful criticism instead.
And how many is “so many”? Enough to infuse most “feminist” articles with misandry. When the vast majority of what’s said under the aegis of feminism is misandric, how can you expect anyone not to consider feminism as a whole misandric?
I too respectfully disagree. Members of a movement that do not comply with the theory can be said to be members in-name-only. Just as something within science that is found wrong is no longer science, ‘feminists’ expressing non-feminist sentiment (misandry here) are not feminist. A particle that does not fit the qualities of being an electron is not an electron. You must know the theory to criticize the movement. It’s only sensible.
“Enough to infuse most ‘feminist’ articles with misandry.” Now, see here, you’re jumping the gun. What feminist literature have you read that is misandric? Quote lines for me. You say ‘vast majority’, but what do you mean by that? I really hate to pick apart your word-choice, but it is important to use the right words at the right time to adequately express an idea.
Interesting discussion, though I mostly agree with ideasandopinions. I criticize feminists and feminism pretty frequently, but even I concede that misandry is not nearly as common within feminism as some seem to believe.
I think that discussions like this confuse the meanings of the term ‘misandry’.
Feminists should know better. ‘Misogyny’, though literally translated to the hatred of women, is not simply men going ‘I hate women’. Otherwise examples of misogyny would be much rarer. Instead, misogyny can be a stereotype, a double standard, or an action/policy which leaves women worse off, intentions regardless. Feminists attempt to recognise and fight misogyny in all of its forms, including those which may be less obvious.
Likewise, ‘misandry’ is not just women going ‘I hate men’. Misandry, like misogyny, can be everywhere and anywhere. Somebody expecting chivalry might not knowingly hate men or women, but they are being misandric and misogynistic. Somebody enforcing patriarchal norms may not realise that what they are doing in misandry and misogyny, but it is. You see?
So, ‘misandry in feminism’ can mean a lot more than the minority of feminists who literally do hate men, and are proud of it. This minority are a problem of their own - they are vocal, face little opposition from within the movement, and are therefore known as influential ‘feminists’. This is obviously offensive to men, and hypocritical coming from supposed egalitarians, but if nothing else these extremists are bad because they give a bad name to real feminism, which suffers as a result. Fight them at every turn.
Although man-hating radicals are bad enough, the problem of feminist misandry is a much deeper one. It concerns the vast majority of feminists, the moderates, the ones who would never describe themselves as a ‘man-hater’, and who will claim to fight sexism in all of its forms.
But it’s misandry when they exclude men from discussions on gender equality, as if ‘women’s issues’ with men weren’t ‘men’s issues’ as well.
It’s misandry when they use ‘male privilege’ as a way to silence male viewpoints as invalid, without actually acknowledging the logical value of any arguments made.
It’s misandry when they use ‘male privilege’ to speak over male suffering as unimportant, as if the world is a ‘safe space’ for men, and thus unintentionally suppress the voices of male victims.
It’s misandry when they use ‘male privilege’ without accepting that they have an equal and opposite ‘female privilege’.
It’s misandry when they accuse a man of ‘mansplaining’, invalidating his point simply because they don’t want to be corrected, as if men can hypocritically never be right where equality is concerned.
It’s misandry when they blame men for misogyny, as if sexist men consciously created the natural patriarchy and its gender roles which hurt men just as much.
It’s misandry when they say misandry doesn’t exist, or laugh about it in a victim’s face.
It’s misandry when they say misandry is just a side effect of misogyny, and that male sufferers are ‘confused’, and the real oppressors.
It’s misandry when they assume that women can never be sexist, whereas all men are sexist whether they know it or not.
It’s misandry when they talk about ‘Nice Guys (tm)’ and other negative male behaviours, without realising that these behaviours are equally as evident in women.
It’s misandry when they talk about issues that negatively affect women without considering how they negatively affect men, and therefore treat them as ‘women’s issues’.
It’s misandry when they talk about issues which negatively affect men, and either reframe them as only affecting women or act as if they are some ‘privilege’ that men should be thankful for.
It’s misandry when they say that only misogyny can be sexism, or relegate misandry to ‘benevolent sexism’, as if it’s only bad when it affects women.
It’s misandry when they perpetuate the sexist stereotype that women are always victims, and men are always the oppressor.
It’s misandry when they blame sexist men for any and all discomforts they face in their life, many of which are not sexist at all, or are discomforts which men face too.
It’s misandry when they ignore men to such an extent that they stop being pro-equality, and begin just being pro-women.
It’s misandry when they are part of a ‘women’s movement’, exclude male ‘allies’ from having power in that movement, and then act as if it is the only movement we need for equality.
It’s misandry when they suppress the masculist movement as unnecessary, necessarily sexist, or a joke, and derail all discussions on men’s rights.
It’s misandry when they use false statistics and facts, for example on domestic violence, to create a negative depiction of men, whilst discouraging male survivors from speaking up.
It’s misandry when they suggest that all men are potential rapists, or that only men should be taught not to rape, or that only men rape.
It’s misandry when they suggest that only women can be rape victims, and that only women should be protected from rape, and only support women speaking up against it.
It’s misandry when they play the sex card on issues where it isn’t needed, as if men can never make the better argument, and must always have an ulterior motive or be blinded by privilege, whereas women aren’t.
It’s misandry when they suggest that women and feminists are immune to criticism, and automatically name-call anybody who disagrees with them, or treat all anti-feminists or masculists as misogynists and rape-apologists simply out of bigotry.
It’s misandry when they think that ‘misogynist’ and ‘rape apologist’ are the same thing, or that certain positions on abortion or promiscuity are necessarily misogynistic, when they may be benign, whilst ignoring all positions which disadvantage men.
It’s misandry so often that I encounter it every day as a male feminist, and struggle to find feminists who don’t do most of the above. There’s your ‘vast majority’.
As for judging the movement on the behaviour of those invoking its name, you have a point; but when such a bulk of members behave in such ways, it’s hard not to take that as a reflection on the label itself. Feminism would be nothing without feminists, and it evolves with them. They are, after all, its voice.
It is easy to simply say ‘well they weren’t a real feminist’ when somebody slips up, but that is far from satisfactory. Nobody is perfect, and so under this method nobody is a feminist. I can’t criticise what Christianity has done in the past, because if they did wrong then they ‘weren’t real Christians’. Nobody is. I can’t complain about oppressive Communist regimes, because they probably ‘weren’t real Communists’. It’s a tempting cop-out, but it doesn’t hold up when applied thoroughly.
As for looking at the fundamentals of the movement, nothing could be more fundamental than the name itself. Feminism. A woman’s movement. Feminism is based on the assumption that women are oppressed and men aren’t, an assumption which has proved very harmful to men, and continues to make a great deal of difficulty for men’s rights movements. There is a way around this, in calling yourself both a feminist and a masculist, but the majority of feminists don’t do that. The majority of feminists, and the sole beacon of feminism that they cling to, are therefore subtly misandric. Until they embrace masculism - or ditch both for the simpler label of ‘egalitarian’ - that is.
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